Curse

Murder In China · Feb 22, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

I want to see nothing nerfed.

Two April Mornings · Feb 22, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Res Sig cannot be nerfed. Its really balanced, just seems unliek so in gvg and hoh cuz of morale.

nerf cripplnig shots recharge, that's all i think now

Sol_Vie · Feb 22, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Crippling Shot only lasts 8 seconds. And that's at 16 marks. (I think.) No nerf needed. If you were to get rid of the evasion and blocking bit it would make it only minimally better than Crippling Shot.

No nerf needed.

IWAY could use a slap, but none of the suggestions I've heard I agree with.

Distortion? Please. No nerf needed. Bring Wild Blow and you're set.

Res Sig? Are you kidding? Yeah maybe it's a tiny bit broken in PvP, but in PvE the way it is can make it almost useless.

SoF? Not many people use it, though it is a great skill. Anti hex can get rid of it.

Gale? It's a pain, yes, but I think the uses of it are pretty creative. Maybe reduce the KD time by no more than a second. Other than that, nothing.

art_ · Feb 22, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

i agree on crippling shot. When you think about it, it only costs like 5e with a normal rangers level of expertise and so comparably to Ele's blinding flash (another spammed condition) its pretty cheap. I also kinda expect flash to maybe get a bigger recharge, although one martyr on your team ruins so many skills that perhaps its good that they arent all that expensive.

dargon · Feb 22, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

IWAY: make it trigger on party members and YOUR pet
Distortion: make the 2 energy break point higher
Gale: cost = 10 energy
Crippling Shot: make it non-evadeable OR non-blockable, but not both, it is an elite, it should definately have some form of use above and beyond pindown

Schorny · Feb 22, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

Distortion? Please. No nerf needed. Bring Wild Blow and you're set.

so you can afford to wild blow every 5 seconds? cool...

Quote:

Res Sig? Are you kidding? Yeah maybe it's a tiny bit broken in PvP, but in PvE the way it is can make it almost useless.

so let's balance all for pve?
res signet in pve is useless, rebirth beats it hands down...

Quote:

SoF? Not many people use it, though it is a great skill. Anti hex can get rid of it.

because there is a counter doesn't make it balanced. it lasts way too long. You don't need any points in curses to keep it up all the time and the effect is nice. and it costs nothing to keep it up... so it is unbalanced.

Quote:

Gale? It's a pain, yes, but I think the uses of it are pretty creative. Maybe reduce the KD time by no more than a second. Other than that, nothing.

the problem is: gale is awesome, so it has a draw back: exhaustion. but warriors don't give a damn about exhaustion - so it is unbalanced.

ayanaftw · Feb 22, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

there's nothing wrong with res sig.

SoF is a hex, and usually ppl only have 1 or 2 war on their team. a standard team has 6 hex removals usually 3 veils 2 inspired and 1 convert. SoF isnt even as annoy as say SS

Sol_Vie · Feb 22, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

so you can afford to wild blow every 5 seconds? cool...

so let's balance all for pve?
res signet in pve is useless, rebirth beats it hands down...

because there is a counter doesn't make it balanced. it lasts way too long. You don't need any points in curses to keep it up all the time and the effect is nice. and it costs nothing to keep it up... so it is unbalanced.

the problem is: gale is awesome, so it has a draw back: exhaustion. but warriors don't give a damn about exhaustion - so it is unbalanced.

There's a bit of hypocrisy in your comment about Distortion/Wild blow. What's the problem with using Wild Blow every 5 seconds? Energy? Well, as you say below warriors don't care about exhaustion so clearly they don't care much about energy. So... where's the problem? You have to spam it? Well, tough break but it's better than missing a majority of the time.

I'm not saying let's balance for PvE. I'm saying that for those people who don't involve /Mo in their build would be screwed after one use of the sig. It isn't useless. I've seen a sig save many a mission.

SoF- once again. Any monk should have anti condition and anti hex. Not to mention SoF isn't often used, as far as I have seen. ('Course I also have not been paying attention to GWWC.)

super dooper · Feb 22, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

There's a bit of hypocrisy in your comment about Distortion/Wild blow. What's the problem with using Wild Blow every 5 seconds? Energy? Well, as you say below warriors don't care about exhaustion so clearly they don't care much about energy. So... where's the problem? You have to spam it? Well, tough break but it's better than missing a majority of the time.

part of the problem with distortion is you only need 4 illusion to hit the -2 breakpoint (even then i just don't think it penalizes you enough

). why would you even consider whirling defense or anything else? or.. why would you consider NOT bring distortion on a mesmer primary or secondary? especially in a warrior heavy environment. even at 0 illusion the -3 energy is negligible if you have decent energy management.. eh i guess it doesn't really matter though because warriors are beasts, you need some defense.

edit: to clarify my thoughts.

Patrograd · Feb 23, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Hmm, I'm guessing SoF is a problem for IWAY teams. Well, dont bunch up then, and if you insist on bunching your warriors, well, you can expect the worst, and I would suggest that SoF is the very least of your worries. At the end of the day, if you are managing to leave a hex on your team for 40 seconds then i would suggest having a serious word with the guys responsible for removing hexes on your team. Oh yes, IWAY doesnt typically run hex removal. Well either be innovative and break the cookie cutter and run hex removal or take the consequences of 40 second hexes.

Cripple shot is an elite skill, its supposed to be good. Live with it, or take the elite skill that is just as spammable that is designed to counter it.

Rez sigs - nothing wrong with their function if they were as described - for use once per mission. what is broken about them is the ability to use them more than once per mission that you get in tombs and GvG.

There isnt much that needs nerfing - exhaustion, the helmet, the -5 energy swords, thats about all I can think off offhand.

Distortion not expensive energy wise? Right, if you say so, although a monk could maintain life barrier on three people for the same cost, less when you conisder the -2 penalty. Unbalanced? hardly.

On the other hand there are shed loads of things that need to be improved, including about 80% of the elite skills in the game, and in some cases complete class concepts need a major overhaul. The problem is that there arent enough viable choices, not because some skills are overpowered, but because many skills are way underpowered.

SaintGreg · Feb 23, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Crippling Shot - make the cripple time dependant on marksmanship. Its unbalanced to run 14 expertise/high wilderness cripplers with no marksmanship. Every skill that is linked to an attribute should at least require some points into it to be effective (like shadow of fear mentioned above)

Buffs should really be the main part of the balance changes, so many useless skills that running the cookie cutter teams works because there are not that many good alternatives.

Patrograd · Feb 23, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

Crippling Shot - make the cripple time dependant on marksmanship. Its unbalanced to run 14 expertise/high wilderness cripplers with no marksmanship. Every skill that is linked to an attribute should at least require some points into it to be effective .

Ok, thats a fair point

dargon · Feb 23, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

agreed on the time being dependant on marksmanship.

JR · Feb 23, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

Res Sig? Are you kidding? Yeah maybe it's a tiny bit broken in PvP, but in PvE the way it is can make it almost useless.

When discussing skill balance please for the love of god don't mention PvE. Please. It makes me cry inside.

Sol_Vie · Feb 23, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

When discussing skill balance please for the love of god don't mention PvE. Please. It makes me cry inside.

Well considering you can't have two versions of one skill, I think it's naive to not consider both uses of a skill.

reboot · Feb 23, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

yeah but this is about PvP.

Dwarven battle stance is laughable, but you can actually use it in PvE, why? How is that possible... Because PvE dosen't have a meta game, and on top of being static, it is so easy that any skill('s) are viable which is why you see PvE players using builds that are horrid, when they first venture into PvP.

So yeah, when talking about PvP skill ballance, in the PvP forum you should leave PvE out of it.

Explaining this stuff is probally pointless because its common sense, and thats not something you can teach most people. N E ways here goes.

Nerfing Res sigs would be one of the best ways to nerf IWAY, with out hurting warriors in general. That would allow more variety in HoH PvP and might encourage people to start playing HoH more. As it is now, I don't know anyone who bothers with HOH, becuase they are bored of fighting 95% IWAY. Notice i said Bored. Just bored thats it, nothing else, and thats what is wrong with IWAY, It makes an entire part of guildwars PvP into a borring PvE like experiance where you almost always fight the same things, with the same tatics and the same outcome. Anet needs to nerf IWAY, not because its to strong, but because its stopped HoH creativity, and alienated skilled players from HoH via Bordom, for several months.

About SoF, your confusing the issue. Its dosent matter if its removable. There is a problem with the skill, when compared to all other hexs which are also removable. The Issue is not the removability, or the class of hex removal skills. The issue is that SoF lasts far to long, about 20-30 seconds longer then it should with next to zero points in curses, and the reson this is unballanced is found by loooking at other hexes, and realizing that none of them are close to SoF in duration. On top of that SoF dosent have any drawbacks to equalize the duration, it has low recharge low cost, and requires low attributes. What SoF needs is a nerf to its duration, and/or an investment of more then a few attribute points to make it effective.

Distorsion - you can argue counters (wildblow in your opinion) all day, its the same as SoF...Counters are not the main thing to consider when looking at ballance. You compair the Skill in question with its peers first, and its counters only if it is ballanced within its peers. Distorsion needs to be less effective at low illusion, thats all. If you look at other stances, you will realize that -3 energy for distorsion up till about nine Illusion seems alot more ballanced than its current -2 energy at Four Illusion.

Crippleshot and gale - both need attention because almost every single build in GvG that worked in the last ladder season had multiple copies of each, and thats a ballance red flag. We don't want the metagame in GvG to disapear like it did with HoH and IWAY over the last several months, and the way to avoid that is to reballance gale and cripshot, so they are not so good that almost every build uses multiple coppies of them. Should they destroy these skills!?...no that would suck. Anet needs to make a careful small change, and see how it works. For gale, change the way exaustion works on warriors. For cripple either raise its recharge or make poision and cripple act differently.

Another skill that needs a look, is OOB. Anet should probally buff E-drain and MoR just a little and nerf OOB just a little, so that OOB isn't the only choice of skills for energy management in gvg, which it preety much is now.

JR · Feb 23, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

Well considering you can't have two versions of one skill, I think it's naive to not consider both uses of a skill.

55hp Monks.

Good day to you, sir.

reboot · Feb 23, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

oh yeah im hoping anet dosent over nerf.

thinking of that I'd like to see them revisit Ether Renewal which they nerfed right out of the game.

I think ether renewal needs to lose its health component and become a little more effective at energy then it is now.

DieInBasra · Feb 23, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

There's a bit of hypocrisy in your comment about Distortion/Wild blow. What's the problem with using Wild Blow every 5 seconds? Energy? Well, as you say below warriors don't care about exhaustion so clearly they don't care much about energy. So... where's the problem? You have to spam it? Well, tough break but it's better than missing a majority of the time.

Um, Exhaustion and energy are two very differant things. Have you never played a gale warrior? Grab a req5 focus from the guy outside Fort Ranik and you're set. Wild Blow also gets rid of all your adren, and you only really care about hitting when it's full. It doesn't matter to miss all the time, but it's kinda dumb that they can use 7e to get a 75% block on the spot, with no cast time and little extra attribute points spent.

Symbol · Feb 23, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Another skill that needs a look, is OOB. Anet should probally buff E-drain and MoR just a little and nerf OOB just a little, so that OOB isn't the only choice of skills for energy management in gvg, which it preety much is now.

No, the answer is to make the other energy regain skills better and to leave OOB alone.